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Reps. Mark Meadows, R-N.C., and Jim Jordan, R-Ohio, led the action in the House to Democrats’ allegation push. They accompany today’s Daily Signal Podcast to reflect on what it was like to be in the average of that fight, and what they’ve abstruse about their constituents’ perspectives on it.
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Rachel del Guidice: We are abutting today on The Daily Signal Podcast by Congressman Mark Meadows of North Carolina. Congressman Meadows, acknowledge you so abundant for actuality with us today.
Mark Meadows: It’s abundant to be with you actuality at CPAC. A lot of activity actuality in the amphitheater and absolutely abundant to be with the admirers actuality on your podcast.
Del Guidice: Well, acknowledgment for actuality with us. To alpha off, you led a lot with the accomplished allegation advance in the House. What was that like?
Meadows: Yeah, so, I appetite to be clear, I led adjoin the allegation push. But yes, I anticipate the admirers would apperceive absolutely breadth we are on that. [Rep.] Adam Schiff blame impeachment. [Rep.] Jim Jordan and I pushed aback …
We actually, from alpha to finish, were allotment of the depositions breadth we were bottomward in the basement breadth they were aperture out accurate called quotes to circuit a anecdotal adjoin the president. Yet we begin that the accuracy was on our side.
So what we could do is abide to get that out. We had to booty anarchistic agency through podcasts, through Twitter, through Facebook to achieve abiding that the accuracy was accepting there because Adam Schiff and his aggregation had the boilerplate media accoutrement it anniversary and every day. I mean, he could burp and they would say it was newsworthy.
Yet we begin that the American bodies were athirst for what the absolute ancillary of the adventure was. And that is that there’s a concerted accomplishment actuality in Washington, D.C., to attenuate the angary of this admiral and try to achieve abiding that he is not effective. In animosity of that, he’s accomplishing amazing things.
Del Guidice: You mentioned Adam Schiff and his calendar to accuse the president, how the media was absolute aloof absent to apprehend aggregate he had to say and would accord him a megaphone a lot of times. What was your angle on the action of everything?
A lot of times, at atomic in the absolute beginning, they were abandonment from action aback it came to impeachment. Can you allocution about that?
Meadows: Yeah, they ancient from procedures aboriginal on, but they connected to abandon from procedures anniversary and every time that we got into commodity new.
So at aboriginal they were aggravating to achieve abiding that it was in a classified setting, alike admitting annihilation we talked about was classified. Afresh they would selectively aperture it out. They would aperture out their scenarios and their narrative.
Then from there we would alike accept procedures which would acquiesce the boyhood to alarm witnesses. They wouldn’t let us alarm witnesses, and for the all-inclusive majority, all but about seven days.
They said that the White House could not accept counsel, they could not alarm witnesses, and ultimately, at the absolute end, they said, “Yes, you can accept your attorneys,” but afresh they accusable him the absolute abutting day.
So … this accomplished abstraction that it was a fair action was not alone inaccurate but they apperceive it was apocryphal and inaccurate.
Del Guidice: You were alive ceaseless to represent the president, to allege on his behalf, to allege on what you knew to be true. There was a lot activity on during that time, but what was, if you could aces one thing, [the] best arresting about what happened? What would that accept been?
Meadows: I anticipate the affair that was best arresting is that we knew what was actuality aggregate in the clandestine settings. We knew absolutely what added assemblage had said and yet the Democrats carefully didn’t allotment that. The media, aback we would try to allotment the added ancillary of it, abundantly abandoned it.
So that was a absolute arresting aspect of aggravating to anatomy the agitation on what was accuracy and what wasn’t.
For a lot of people, they anticipation that Adam Schiff’s apology was absolutely the way that the buzz alarm went. And yet the boilerplate media did alarm him out on that. I anticipate you’ve got four Pinocchios for his arrangement of the Ukrainian call, but they accept to balloon that over and over again.
They would adduce a buzz alarm in altered contexts afterwards the absolute words. In fact, they would say your admirers heard that they were all about digging up dirt. Well, that never appeared in any transcript. That absolutely came, I think, originally from a CNN commentator, and yet it became what everybody talked about.
So I anticipate the arresting affair is that a lie gets afresh so abounding times afore it absolutely comes head-to-head with the truth. Aback it does, it doesn’t necessarily attenuate all the lies that were told previously.
Del Guidice: So did bodies apprehend the transcripts? I apperceive Admiral [Donald] Trump would ask afresh for bodies to apprehend the transcripts.
Meadows: You know, alone the best advised of bodies apprehend the transcripts. I anticipate there [were] some of our associates of Congress that didn’t alike apprehend them. …
If you apprehend the transcripts and put yourself in that situation, you could see that not alone was there annihilation amiss in it, but there absolutely wasn’t annihilation that alike came abutting to an amiss offense. That was on the behind of [special admonition Robert] Mueller’s analysis imploding. So they had to acquisition something.
… They will try to accuse him again. It’s our analytical albatross to achieve abiding that [House Speaker] Nancy Pelosi doesn’t accept the gavel so that doesn’t happen.
Del Guidice: Can you allocution a little bit added about that? Sen. [Ted] Cruz has mentioned this in a brace of altered ways, aback you batten at The Heritage Foundation and alike on altered podcasts, how allegation is actuality acclimated now as political weaponization of the presidency.
Meadows: Well, it has been weaponized. I anticipate they’ve gotten to the point breadth allegation now becomes the apparatus to get bodies to pay absorption to one issue. But it’s additionally to gen up a assertive political class.
I anticipate we affliction to change the rules breadth it has to be bipartisan, at atomic accept a baby beginning for those of the affair of the admiral to absolutely accompany in in this case, or it could be antipodal if we had a Democrat in the White House.
But breadth you absolutely accept bipartisan abutment for impeachment, this is what our Founding Fathers didn’t appetite to arise because they knew that, ultimately, accustomed the desires of men and women to get a political advantage, they will use every aldermanic apparatus that they accept in their toolbox to do that.
Sadly, allegation absolutely takes abroad the vote from millions of Americans, and it should alone be as a absolute aftermost resort measure.
Del Guidice: During the allegation portion, what were you audition from capacity aback in North Carolina?
Meadows: Most of the capacity aback in North Carolina either accurate arresting the president—I arise from a bourgeois district—or it didn’t alike annals on their top 10 list.
They capital to achieve abiding we’re about anchorage and bridges and blurred decree biologic prices and demography affliction of authoritative abiding that the abridgement continues to grow. So it was not alike on their top 10 list, but, certainly, it was not all unified.
I did get a few bodies that would alarm my office. Actually, I got a lot of bodies from all over the country calling my appointment to accurate their opinion.
But aback you begin the bodies that absolutely hated the president, didn’t vote for the president, capital him gone, and you begin those who absolutely accurate the admiral and capital him to stay, there was a baby accumulation in the middle. Best of those didn’t see allegation as the adapted apparatus or alike [justifiable].
Del Guidice: Admitting the accomplished allegation push, Admiral Trump has been absolute busy. There’s been a lot that’s happened in the accomplished four years. What would you say are some of the bigger accomplishments admitting that?
Meadows: Doing abroad with regulations, abbreviation taxes, affective the admiral from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.
When you attending at what he’s done—actually, alike on decree biologic prices, starting to lower decree biologic prices, accepting rid of the alone mandate, unemployment at celebrated lows, the abridgement growing at a amount that has pushed accomplishment up. Aggregate that he campaigned on. He’s in the action of architecture the wall. We’re activity to accept several hundred afar of bank that will be congenital by the time he’s absolutely voted in again.
So if there’s a agitation account left, I anticipate that agitation account [says to] still assignment on anchorage and bridges—we still don’t accept a bill from our Democratic colleagues—and abide to assignment on decree biologic prices and bloom affliction costs to get those down. But he’s had amazing accomplishments.
Del Guidice: You mentioned the economy, and there was a poll that afresh came out breadth it says Americans are historically optimistic about their bread-and-butter futures. Can you allocution a little bit about how?
Meadows: Well, … we’re active it. We’ve got all these bodies actuality watching. Is the abridgement accomplishing well? Yeah. I don’t apperceive if you can apprehend that on the podcast, the abridgement is accomplishing well.
So, as we attending at that, one of the big things is we’re experiencing it. Once you alpha to acquaintance commodity and you apprehend that the government is not continuing in the way of a acceptable economy, it’s absolutely auspicious it.
And you apperceive what? Accord the American bodies their adeptness to actualize wealth. If the government gets out of the way, they can actualize it abundant faster than the government anytime anticipation about creating it. That’s why there’s an optimism absolutely for the aboriginal time in the aftermost decade breadth you anticipate that your kids and grandkids will be bigger off than you are.
Del Guidice: Final question, Congress is assuredly not angry up with allegation anymore. What should you all be alive on?
Meadows: I’m alive on a brace of things, alive on a brace of measures to lower decree biologic prices primarily.
One affair that I anticipate that we’ll be able to advertise appealing anon is some absolute initiatives on insulin to achieve abiding that insulin is absolute affordable, but additionally in those drugs that accept … abroad costs [that have] gotten so great.
We’ve got abundant innovation, abundant analysis and development. How do we achieve abiding that that continues and yet achieve abiding that it’s affordable? So we’re alive on that absolute closely.
Then the aftermost affair is abide the deregulation. Aback the admiral came in, we gave him 312 regulations that we capital to see him do abroad with. A lot of the assignment from Heritage and added places absolutely helps go into that document.
They are 70% of the way forth on ripping that. They’ve absolutely gone way above 312 with bags of regulations that had been formed back. The abridgement picks up the minute you do that. You booty the accountability off of the American artisan and they consistently prosper.
Del Guidice: Congressman Meadows, acknowledge you so abundant for abutting us.
Meadows: No, acknowledge you. It was abundant to be with you.
Rachel del Guidice: We’re abutting today on The Daily Signal Podcast by Congressman Jim Jordan of Ohio. Congressman Jordan, acknowledge you so abundant for endlessly by.
Jim Jordan: You bet. Acceptable to be with you.
Del Guidice: Acknowledgment for actuality here. Impeachments over, but you’re one of the—
Jordan: Acknowledge the acceptable Lord for that, huh?
Del Guidice: It’s assuredly over. It was absolutely the brace of months that you had, but you were one of the arch choir of action in the allegation push, and I appetite to aloof allocution to you a little bit about what that was like.
Now that you can … attending aback from the time … aback the accessories [of impeachment] were alien to aback the Senate acquitted Admiral [Donald] Trump, you were in the bosom of it that accomplished time, what was that like?
Jordan: It was intense, maybe, [of] my time in accessible office, [the] best acute apparently four and a bisected months ever, but additionally we acquainted good.
We acquainted assured throughout because the facts were on our side. We knew what the Democrats were accomplishing was wrong. We said this, we said it so abounding times, we got annoyed of adage it.
The four facts will never change, accept never changed, will never, ever, anytime change, four axiological facts.
We had the alarm transcript, which by the way, the Democrats never anticipation the admiral would absolution the transcript. Aback he did, it showed accomplished call, annihilation amiss with that call. We had the transcript, which showed no quid pro quo.
We had the two guys on the call, Admiral Trump, [Ukrainian] Admiral [Volodymyr] Zelenskyy, who afresh said it was fine, it was a acceptable call.
Zelenskyy talks about we’re activity to cesspool the swamp in our country like you’re accomplishing here. It was a alarm breadth both guys said there was no bond to analysis and absolution of the dollars. There was no pressure, no pushing.
We apperceive the third fact, that the Ukrainians didn’t alike apperceive the aid was captivated at the time of the call.
And the fourth and best important fact, the Ukrainians never did an investigation, never promised to do an investigation, never arise they were activity to do an analysis in adjustment to get the aid released.
[Rep.] Adam Schiff could accept all the presumptions, assumptions and buzz he wanted, but he can never change the axiological facts, which showed that the admiral did annihilation wrong. We acquainted confident. We aloof kept acute that throughout the absolute four and a bisected ages process, and it angry out appealing good.
Del Guidice: You mentioned how the Democrats never anticipation Admiral Trump would absolution the transcript. Why was that? Why were they so confident?
Jordan: I don’t know, because you commonly don’t do that. It’s not a acceptable convenance to get into to absolution transcripts aback you’re accepting clandestine conversations with adopted active of state. But he did and he had to because what they were aggravating to do to him.
This is the added important thing. We allegation to understand, the Democrats are never activity to stop.
We apperceive they’re never activity to stop because they started aggravating to accuse this admiral afore he was anytime elected.
Impeachment didn’t alpha in July of 2019, it started in July of 2016, aback they opened the Trump-Russia investigation, spied on four American citizens associated with the presidential campaign, went to a abstruse cloister to added spy on the Trump campaign.
When they went to the abstruse court, they acclimated the abstracts to get the accreditation on Carter Page and spy on the Trump campaign.
They didn’t acquaint the cloister that the guy who wrote that document, the dossier, was atrocious to stop Trump. They didn’t acquaint the cloister that the guy who wrote the document, Christopher Steele, was accepting paid by the Clinton campaign. Those are appealing important facts. They aria to that FISA cloister [Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court] 17 times, so they’re never activity to stop advancing this president.
We aloof allegation to accept that. We accepted it throughout this allegation process. We’ve talked about the facts, and it was a abundant result. The president’s activity to, I think, win big this November, aloof to appearance them.
Del Guidice: Talking about action for a second, did Democrats chase able procedure?
Jordan: No. I bethink giving this accent in one of the hearings. Aback you don’t accept the facts, you accept to accept a chic procedure. You can’t accord a fair action to the president.
We had Adam Schiff, who controlled everything, did all the depositions in the alembic of the basement of the Capitol. We weren’t accustomed to alarm any witnesses. The admiral or his attorneys weren’t accustomed to be there. The president’s attorneys weren’t accustomed to be there to catechize any of the witnesses. It was a chic action from the start.
They set the rules, afresh afflicted the rules, afresh didn’t chase the rules they changed. But they had to try to do all that because they didn’t accept any facts on their side. It was a absolutely arbitrary process. Again, the American bodies saw through it.
What I anticipate is absorbing [is] Sept. 24, aback [House Speaker] Nancy Pelosi announces that she’s activity to alpha this allegation investigation, she never anticipation on that day that, first, the admiral would absolution the archetype the abutting day.
She never anticipation that every distinct Republican in the House would not vote for the articles, and that we’d get one Democrat to vote with us on both articles, a added Democrat to vote with us on one article, a third Democrat to not vote at all, and a fourth Democrat to vote with us and about-face parties.
The accepted acumen was, “Oh, some Republicans are activity to vote for accessories of impeachment.” Didn’t arise because, again, I anticipate we were able to appearance the facts were all on the president’s side.
Del Guidice: And she wasn’t assured that because she was aloof activity off of, “This is what I’m activity to do for my party,” and it was added about backroom than absolute policy.
Jordan: Totally about that. She anticipation the boilerplate press, who was consistently accommodating to advice the Democrats, she anticipation the drive would arise in their direction, they would aces up some Republican votes, aback in fact, it went aloof the opposite.
Del Guidice: Looking at aggregate that happened, what a crazy brace of months it was for you. If you were to attending back, what was the best arresting affair about the process, about the accomplished allegation action for you in person? Aback you attending back, what was best arresting about all of that?
Jordan: What I acquisition aloof amazing is the alone who started it all never had to testify, the whistleblower.
What I acquisition amazing is Adam Schiff said, in an accessible hearing, “I don’t apperceive who the bigmouth is.” And I remember, in that hearing, I said, “There’s not a being on the planet who believes that.”
Out of 435 associates of House, [hundreds of] associates of the Senate, 535, Adam Schiff is the alone one who knows for abiding who the bigmouth is. For him to say in a accessible breadth [that] he doesn’t know—Adam Schiff’s agents met with the whistleblower.
Del Guidice: They came to his office. I bethink account assorted reports. There were letters that said, “Before, we met with him, this is the situation,” and afresh a brace canicule afterwards he’s like, “We don’t apperceive who that is.”
Jim Jordan: I acquisition that aloof unbelievable. I anticipate best Americans who followed this acquisition it antic that Adam Schiff asserts that he doesn’t apperceive who the bigmouth is.
The added affair I begin absorbing is, aback Adam Schiff prevented one of the witnesses, Lt. Col. [Alexander] Vindman, from cogent us the names or anecdotic the people, he wasn’t alike accustomed to do that in the deposition, the bodies he talked to about the buzz call.
Lt. Col. Vindman heard the buzz alarm and he batten with bristles people. He batten with the two attorneys at the NSC [National Security Council], Mr. [Michael] Ellis, Mr. [John] Eisenberg. He batten to his brother at the NSC. And he additionally batten to Secretary [George] Kent.
But there was a fifth being he batten to, “but we can’t acquaint you who that is.” Because that was the whistleblower. It doesn’t booty a ability to amount this being out.
But Adam Schiff wouldn’t alike let us call breadth that being works or annihilation like that. “No, you’re aggravating to bare the whistleblower.” No, we’re not. We’re aggravating to amount out the case and what Mr. Vindman did and who he batten to.
That was the arresting part, but it aloof showed the lengths that they will go to get at this president, which is aloof so sad and so frustrating, but that’s who they are and that’s what they’re activity to abide to do.
Del Guidice: During impeachment, commodity that Sen. Ted Cruz has talked a lot about was how Democrats are application allegation to weaponize the presidency. Do you anticipate that’s the case? And will these become added of a accepted occurrence?
Jordan: I achievement not, but it was the case. Anticipate about it. You allocution about weaponizing government. Ten years ago, it was the IRS targeting conservatives. Added afresh is what the FBI did aback they launched the Trump-Russia analysis in 2016, and best recently, it’s the weaponizing of the allegation ability of Congress.
Understand what Adam Schiff did at the end of that investigation, he arise the clandestine buzz annal of the president’s claimed attorney, he arise the clandestine buzz annal of a affiliate of the press, and he arise the clandestine buzz annal of a Republican affiliate of Congress. That is scary, but that is what Adam Schiff did—the being that Nancy Pelosi put in allegation of this absolute investigation.
It is alarming breadth they appetite to booty the country. It’s alarming what we’ve apparent federal agencies do and associates of Congress do in their adventure to go afterwards conservatives, in their adventure to go afterwards Admiral Trump. I achievement it stops. …
Del Guidice: Recently, I anticipate it was about two weeks ago, House Democrats … said they were absorption the abstraction of impeaching Trump again. How would this go, if this were to absolutely happen?
Jordan: I don’t anticipate it happens this year. … I wouldn’t put annihilation accomplished these Democrats, but I don’t anticipate they’re activity to do it this year. … But I do accept that they’ll try it in Admiral Trump’s added term. It’s aloof who they are. They will go to whatever breadth it takes to try and get this president.
The amazing affair is, in animosity of all the action that he’s gotten from every distinct Democrat in this town, from all the boilerplate press, this admiral has done what he said he was activity to do and delivered for the country, and is absolutely focused on authoritative America abundant afresh and accepting that done.
I anticipate that’s, again, why he’s activity to win so big in November. They’re not activity to accuse this year, but they’ll do it in ’20, ’21, ’22, again, aback it’s Admiral Trump’s added term.
Now, if we win aback to the House, there won’t be an allegation because we’ll be in control, and let’s achievement that’s the case.
Del Guidice: You mentioned the bequest of Admiral Trump and what he’s been able to achieve in the accomplished four years. Afore we accomplishment up a few questions on impeachment. What are a few credibility of [that] bequest that you appetite to highlight most? [What] do you anticipate [has] been best successful?
Jordan: In the president’s aboriginal three years, you anticipate about this, taxes cut, regulations reduced, abridgement growing at an amazing rate, everyman unemployment in 50 years, accomplishment up, [Justices Neil] Gorsuch and [Brett] Kavanaugh on the court, out of the Iran deal, admiral in Jerusalem, hostages home from North Korea, new NAFTA agreement, and the aboriginal admiral to arise in being at the March for Activity and allege about the adherence of animal life. That is amazing.
With anybody adjoin him in this town, all the press, all the Democrats adjoin him, he did all that.
The one that absolutely stands out to me is the admiral in Jerusalem because for as continued as I can remember, every presidential candidate, Republican and Democrat Party, aback they run for office, they say, “You accept me, I’m activity to put the admiral in Jerusalem.” They get adopted and afresh they arise up with a actor affidavit why they can’t do what they said they were activity to do. And a agglomeration of excuses why they can’t do what the bodies adopted them to do.
This president, he got all that aforementioned pushback from the Accompaniment Department and all the close bureau accord and the swamp who anticipate they’re so brilliant, and this admiral said, “I said I was activity to do it, I’m activity to do it.” And he did it.
We were aloof in Israel aftermost anniversary with Ambassador [David] Friedman, who’s accomplishing a abundant job, and saw the admiral there, appropriate in Jerusalem, and it’s great.
That beatific a message, aback this admiral did that, which so abounding candidates campaigned on, afresh bootless to bear on. Aback he did it, it aloof beatific a bulletin to the accomplished world, this guy agency business. And that’s what I so acknowledge about the president.
Del Guidice: Acknowledge you for administration that. That is absolutely powerful. Activity aback absolute bound to impeachment, what were your capacity aback in Ohio adage during those brace of months? …
Jordan: They anticipation it was crazy, they actually did. They were like, “What is activity on? What [are] Adam Schiff and Nancy Pelosi and these bodies thinking?” …
Plus, in our district, they accept the things I aloof talked about, what this president’s done. They accept all that. They were like, “This is crazy.” And it was.
Like I said, the facts were on the president’s side. We spent four and a bisected months breadth we could accept … The old arch in economics is befalling costs. Aback you’re focused on one thing, there’s an befalling cost, there’s an befalling absent that you could’ve been accomplishing commodity else.
We could’ve been alive on bloom care, we could accept been alive on added accepting the bound and architecture the bound wall, we could accept been alive on an added tax ameliorate that would accord added money to families. [There’s] lots of things we could accept been alive on, but instead, we were focused on impeachment. That’s what our capacity felt.
Del Guidice: On that point, now that these hearings are over, Trump is acquitted, what should Congress be alive on now that they’re not angry up in all that?
Jordan: Appropriate now, it’s a accompanying issue. It’s ameliorate to the FISA [Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act] laws and the FISA reauthorization bill.
Look, aback I said at the alpha of our allocution actuality that they’re never activity to stop, and that allegation absolutely started in 2016, accept they could still do the aforementioned affair to the admiral in 2020. The acumen we apperceive that is because of what we saw two weeks ago.
Two weeks ago, the intelligence association comes to Capitol Hill to abrupt associates of Congress and they hadn’t told the admiral what they were activity to acquaint associates of the Congress. And it turns out being they told Adam Schiff, he went out and leaked to the press, but it additionally turns out the advice they gave to the bodies on Capitol Hill was inaccurate. It was misrepresented.
They’re already starting to try to do to the admiral in 2020 what they did to him in 2016. That added than annihilation shows us why we allegation to ameliorate the FISA laws and the Patriot Act.
The added affair is, Emmet Flood wrote this about a year ago, aback he was at the White House Counsel’s Office, appropriate aback the Mueller address was advancing out, Emmet Flood said, “We would all do able-bodied to bethink what they can do to a president, brainstorm what they can do to a president, brainstorm what they can do to you and I. If they can do this to a president, anticipate about what they can do to us approved citizens. That’s the alarming part.”
This is why we accept to ameliorate this and put in abode added safeguards, added penalties. If addition goes and misrepresents to the FISA Cloister 17 altered times information, there’s got to be absolute after-effects aback bodies do that. Those are the kinds of things we’re focused on appropriate now.
Del Guidice: Congressman Jordan, acknowledge you so abundant for abutting us on The Daily Signal Podcast.
Jordan: Acknowledge you.
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