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After an abashing appointment with a turkey, Laura resolves to eat beneath meat and takes Leah on a adventure through the addition meat industry. Will real, beef and claret meat be anachronistic in 15 years, as one industry baton suggests? Laura and Leah altercate with the administrator of UC Berkeley’s Alt: Meat Lab, Dr. Ricardo San Martin, and a above apprentice who is developing a faux-chicken drumstick. (The catechism on everyone’s apperception is: if it’s vegan, what’s the drumstick bone?) Additionally on the docket: how to about-face plants into burgers, why abounding meat alternatives on the bazaar aren’t acceptable for you, the cultural and moral implications of meat-eating, and what the aliment of the approaching ability attending like.

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This adventure was accounting and hosted by Laura Smith and Leah Worthington and produced by Coby McDonald.

Special acknowledgment to Pat Joseph, Ricardo San Martin, Jessica Schwabach, Siwen Deng, Brooke Kottmann, and California annual intern Maddy Weinberg. Art by Michiko Toki and aboriginal music by Mogli Maureal.

LEAH WORTHINGTON: Hi, Laura. Happy New Year.

LAURA SMITH: Hi, Leah, Happy New Year.

LEAH: Thank you. So the best important catechism of the New Year: Do you accept any resolutions?

LAURA: Yes, I absolutely do. And of course, it relates to our episode today.

LEAH: Well, isn’t that convenient. So what is it?

LAURA: I anticipate I told you about my Thanksgiving experience. But basically, I bought a turkey from the farmers’ bazaar for Thanksgiving and absitively I was gonna do it all myself. And it was my aboriginal time authoritative a turkey, and it was absolutely adamantine for me. Like ambidextrous with a anatomy of a turkey, I absolutely acquainted like I was ambidextrous with a corpse, and I had to stick my duke in assorted cavities. And at one point, I was defrosting it in my bathtub, and it aloof acquainted like it was a allotment of, like, the atramentous bazaar agency trade. And I didn’t feel abundant about it. I’ve never been air-conditioned adequate with the beastly annihilation process, and this was aloof one footfall afterpiece to that process. I mean, I didn’t annihilate the turkey myself, but it was the abutting footfall in that. And I, at one point I was like plucking accoutrement off the turkey, because there were still some accoutrement on it, with my tweezers. And I aloof didn’t like it. It aloof brought up a lot of issues surrounding meat bistro for me.

LAURA: So to accompany it aback to your aboriginal question, I anticipate I’m activity to accomplish a New Year’s resolution to either eat beneath meat, or maybe stop bistro meat altogether. I don’t know. I’m not absolute adamant about it.

LEAH: Yeah, I mean, beastly adversity aside, not that beastly adversity is an aside, but we’re gonna put it abreast for a moment… There’s all these added issues with meat and the environment, right? Like, we’ve heard about how the way that we acreage animals, the bulk of animals that we consume, are absolutely accidental to all-around warming. And I mean, booty cow farts, like cow farts are a big ambassador of methane. And I accept that beastly agronomics is amenable for some like 18% of greenhouse gases. And whether we like it or not, we apperceive that if we ate beneath meat or no meat, things would be a lot bigger for the environment, like acutely better. Not to acknowledgment the bloom allowances as well.

LAURA: Right. So for this episode, we’re activity to allocution to some bodies who are at the alpha of the alt meat industry.

LEAH: Alt meat, we should say acceptation alternatives to meats, because I accept they don’t appetite to alarm them, like, constructed meats or tofurkey. That was terrible. Tofurkey is terrible. Affected meat? Eh. None of it sounds very good.

LAURA: Yeah. Addition sounds nice. And the alt meat industry is accomplishing things to plants to accomplish them added meat like so bodies who appetite to blemish that…meat crawling can do it.

LEAH: Ew…let’s do it. Let’s blemish that meat itch.

LAURA: Yeah, “meat itch” ability be one of the grosser things we’ll say on this episode…although maybe not!


LAURA: This is The Edge, a podcast produced by California annual and the Cal Alumni Association.

LEAH: Area we allocution with Berkeley experts about how we’re activity to stop accomplishing things that bodies accept done for hundreds of bags of years and, you know, do article else instead.

LAURA: Because we ashore the planet?

LEAH: We sure did.

LAURA: I’m your host, Laura Smith.

LEAH: And I’m your added host, Leah Worthington.


LAURA: Meat alternatives accept been about for a absolutely continued time. In fact, there’s a certificate that was accounting in 10th aeon China that talks about how tofu was a acceptable meat alternative. And they alleged it, “small mutton.”

LEAH: [Laughs] I’m calling tofu “small mutton” from now on.

LAURA: And in medieval Europe, they acclimated to chop grapes and almonds and dice aliment as a acting for minced meat during Lent. It sounds affectionate of nice, actually. I could be into that.

LEAH: Sure, but there’s annihilation you can do to a grape to accomplish it assume like minced meat.

LAURA: Yeah, that’s true. But I’m also—do you absolutely appetite to eat minced meat? Minced meat sounds gross.

LEAH: I accept absolutely no absorption in minced meat.

LAURA: But minced grapes…that’s a go.

LEAH: Do you anticipate instead of the meat, I could accept some minced grapes? This was me at a medical restaurant. They said no.

LAURA: No, no. But in contempo years, conceivably because of the accumulative affair about the environment, bodies are acid back. So one in four Americans say that they’re aggravating to eat beneath meat. And this is according to a Gallup poll that was conducted beforehand this year. And there seems to be a new beachcomber of meatless meat-like articles to match. So there’s a lot of accent on aggravating to accomplish it assume like we’re bistro meat. So they’re accomplishing things to try to affected meat accept a meat-like mouthfeel or accomplish affected meat drain and array of adjure the umami flavors of meat. So booty for example, Impossible Foods, to which Berkeley assistant Michael Eisen is an advisor, and Beyond Burger. These are companies that are absolutely aggravating to allurement meat eaters into not bistro meat because of affair for the environment. And they’re application a lot of acid bend science to change the market.

LEAH: You were talking about Impossible Foods—I anticipate the Impossible Foods CEO, his name’s Patrick Brown, he said that plant-based foods are activity to “completely alter the animal-based articles in the aliment angel aural the abutting 15 years.” That’s what he thinks at least.

LAURA: And Berkeley is abnormally positioned to be a baton in this because Berkeley is the home of the Alt: Meat Lab.

RICARDO SAN MARTIN: My name is Ricardo San Martin. And I am the analysis administrator of the Alt: Meat affairs that we accept at the Sutardja Center for Entrepreneurship and Technology of UC Berkeley. And aboriginal of all, I’m not a vegan. I’m the non-vegan administrator of the vegan program. So the bucking starts there.

LAURA: Ricardo is all about all-embracing contradiction. For example, he finds it absolute adamantine to change his means aback it comes to eating. So if you’re activity like it would be absolutely boxy to accomplish the about-face from a ribeye to rutabaga, Ricardo is sympathetic.

RICARDO: My accord with aliment in accepted is cultural. If you acquaint me, “you know, you’ve been bistro all this stuff, but you apperceive what? It’s bad what you’re accomplishing now, you accept to change,” for me, I could try and I’ve tried. But it’s adamantine giving abroad your things about food. It evokes too abounding things. It evokes memories, it evokes who you are, aback you had this with someone. It’s cultural, it’s shared, because we commonly eat together. So aliment is allotment of who we are.

LEAH: So what would you say to accession who says, “I like steak, and no addition meat is activity to alter the arrangement and acidity and acquaintance of bistro steak. And I’m never activity to, I can’t accord that up.”

RICARDO: What can I say? I mean, aliment is so personal. It’s who we are so, so I would account that person, because that’s the way this actuality was raised, and how they see the world. I mean, I could acquaint them in agreement of information, but that doesn’t booty the behavior of anyone. Say, “you know, what, anniversary time you eat a steak, you’re putting so abundant CO2 in the, you know, in the world, and you’re, and all the animals are adversity and all of that.” I mean, you could accept the characterization in a cigarette cogent you that you’re gonna die of cancer, you know, if you smoke.” There’s a lot of bodies that smoke still. These are not about information. This is about emotions. And that’s why I anticipate change is so complex. And that’s why I don’t accomplish any judgments or any statements. I assignment with Cal acceptance and my job is to accommodate them with the best assets for them to accomplish their own assessment about this, their own ideas, and for them to advance the best articles they can appear up with. But I accompany the bucking to the class.

LAURA: I acquisition his angle on meat burning to be absolutely nuanced. And he’s ambrosial analytical of the CEO of Impossible Foods’ affirmation that we’re alone activity to be bistro plant-based foods in 15 years.

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LEAH: Okay, but clearly, he does anticipate meat alternatives are important, and that eventually, we’ll all be bistro added of those and beneath absolute meat. And that’s area the Alt: Meat Lab comes in. So Laura, aback the lab acutely isn’t some array of advertising apparatus for veggie burgers or whatever, can you acquaint us a little added about what it is for?

LAURA: The Alt: Meat Lab is this absolutely altered hub, which is Silicon Basin allege for “place,” area acceptance and entrepreneurs and advisers can all articulation up and try to break the botheration of how to accomplish bigger addition meats and…save the world. So they accept business ally who affectation absolute problems that their companies are having, and the acceptance assignment in teams to try to break them. And afresh they go out into the angel and try to alpha their own meat-free companies. One of the issues that the lab is aggravating to abode is that a lot of the alt meat articles aren’t about as advantageous as these companies claim. In fact, in abounding cases, they’re not absolutely abundant convalescent than meat.

LEAH: Yeah. So like we mentioned earlier, we’ve accepted for affectionate of a while now that bistro a lot of meat isn’t abundant for you. And you know, a lot of meats are absolutely aerial in fat, abnormally saturated fat, which bistro too abundant of can advance to affection ache and blight and added problems. Basically, you shouldn’t be bistro a steak with every meal, right? But I consistently affected that veggie burgers and whatever, you know, alternatives were acceptable for you, they were the alternative, right? The addition to the ailing meat option. Because they’re aloof plants, right?

RICARDO: I mean, there’s a accomplished anecdotal controlled by industry, that that’s air-conditioned easy, that that’s article like, you know, if you see the capacity in all this, in all the web pages of these companies, they will actualization you some beans, some potato flour, you know, a little bit of water, and that’s it, like you mix all this, and afresh aback you get a burger. I’m cogent you, you’re not activity to get a burger accomplishing that. So in the processing, you additionally accept to add additives for everything, right? You will accept to add additives to bind the burger together. If you’re accomplishing a burger in your abode and you’re not vegan, you’re allegedly activity to use an egg to do that. Well, actuality you cannot use the egg. So that not abounding things that do the ambush of that aback you baker them, they’re not activity to crumble apart. You accept to block those aftertaste elements that plants have. So you accept to add some blockers there.

LEAH: So you add article that tastes bad. So you accept to add article abroad to block the aftertaste of the bad tasting thing.

LAURA: Yeah, this is absolutely ambagious out of control. But listen, it gets worse.

RICARDO: Afresh you accept to add the fat because aback you transform, let’s say a bean, a soybean into what’s alleged a “protein isolate,” and you transform that in a coarse attractive material, there’s a lot of processing that has to be done. And one of the key accomplish there is that you accept to abolish the oil of the soy. Already you do that, afresh you accept to abstract the protein. Aback you accept crumb that looks, you know, absolute pure, it’s about biologic brand the thing, afresh you accept to put it in an extruder.

LEAH: This is not absolute aperitive to be honest. Yeah, I do not appetite to eat extruded food, or aliment that has its proteins isolated.

LAURA: I aloof appetite to eat an angel or a allotment of bread. Article simple. Article less lab-coaty.

LEAH: Speaking of lab coats, like how does this happen? I’m picturing all these acceptance in a kitchen, you know, with their vials barometer out awe-inspiring proteins and sauteeing them on the stove. But I’m allegedly wrong. So what are they accomplishing in there? Turning pineapples into pork chops?

LAURA: Sort of…

RICARDO: So it’s a kitchen. And on the ancillary there’d all this accouterment to analysis what you’re doing. The acceptance try to accept deeply, at the atomic level, what is it that makes a bacon feel and attending and baker and aftertaste like a bacon. And they’re aggravating to find, in the bulb kingdom, what is there that plants can accept that could alter or actor this, let’s say in this case, a bacon. And already they accept like an abstraction of a prototype, they aloof do it. And afresh they analysis it and say “oh, it’s too soft,” or “it’s not chewy” or “it doesn’t baker really well.”

LAURA: And this can get really technical.

RICARDO: The acceptance accept to accept aliment at a absolute basal level. You accept to accept aliment microstructure, why molecules accessory one with anniversary other, you know, what makes meat meat and meat fibers, they behave the way they behave, and the role of fat…all of that has to be accepted at a absolute fundamental level.

LAURA: Leah, at this point in the interview, we were on Zoom. And so you and I could see him, and he pulled out this behemothic bag of what I can alone call as attractive like actuality that you ability acquisition in the basal of a gerbil cage.

RICARDO: [Rustles in bag] I apperceive bodies will not be able to see this, but what you’re seeing this affair like a air-conditioned material, that’s extruded protein. Okay?

LAURA: So it was a bag of abandoned proteins, and we did not appetite to eat it at all.

LEAH: And apparently, that’s the affectionate of actuality that goes into a faux craven nugget, which as you’ve heard us call is absolute dry-looking. So Ricardo explained that, you know, in adjustment to accomplish it not abominable and dry and protein-like, they accept to add a lot of fats, you apperceive like attic oil and that array of thing. So you don’t feel like you’re bistro a affirmation of gerbil cage filler.

LAURA: Right, and the attic oils and added oils accept a lot of fats and those are not acceptable for you in such high doses.

RICARDO: And the added important allotment is like, I mean, which I accent a lot to the acceptance is like plant-based doesn’t accept the allowances of plants. I mean, that’s the anecdotal of the industry again. Plant-based is like, I bare the bulb of the protein, basically, and I took all the fiber, the vitamins, the minerals, aggregate out because I bare to action that. But afresh they advertise to you like, “oh, I’m bistro plants.” No, you’re not eating, I beggarly if you appetite to eat plants eat quinoa with avocado, I mean, and in that faculty like tofu is abundant added afterpiece to what the soy has, than a processed, extruded protein abstract from soy.

LEAH: He has a point. I mean, these labels you know, like “plant-based” and all those added sorts of things, they accomplish meat addition complete all accustomed and healthy, you know. But in reality, a lot of this actuality is absolutely synthetic, which, in accession to aloof what’s best for our bodies, raises some questions around, for me, personal comfort.

LAURA: No, totally. Which brings up what we mentioned at the alpha the accent of aliment and ability and traditions. And that’s article that Ricardo takes really seriously.

LEAH: Well, like for me, so I bless Hanukkah every year. And we accept a attitude of accepting this appropriate steak that comes from a bounded annihilation bottomward area I grew up. And, you know, I’m not a huge meat eater. But this steak is array of basic to my Hanukkah experience; it’s adamantine to brainstorm Hanukkah after it. And, you know, in a angel area we eat beneath and beneath meat, ideally, I would additionally skip the steak. But on the added hand, maybe a bigger and added impactful accommodation would be to adore that once-a-year, meat amusement and try to abate the bulk of beastly articles that I eat on a regular basis.

LAURA: And some bodies ability be accomplished with aloof acid it all together, and the angel would allegedly be a bigger abode for it. In agreement of the environment, at least.

LEAH: Which array of gets to Ricardo’s actualization about innovating meat alternatives, area the ambition is to accomplish continued appellation changes to our aliment systems that are adjustable to altered people’s needs, not to, you know, argue anybody to eat tofu with every meal, which isn’t gonna happen. Not anybody brand small mutton!

LAURA: Yeah, I mean, I anticipate it’s a ambrosial astute view, like his ambition is not to about-face anybody into a vegan, but he acutely does anticipate a above archetype about-face needs to action both aural the meat industry, aural our access to aliment in general, and also, aural the meat industry, the non-alt meat industry, the approved meat industry, and in agreement of our health, also. So all of these changes accept to happen. And this ability not be the aforementioned for every culture.

RICARDO: And so my bulletin to the acceptance really, is that there’s no bright analogue actuality of what’s so acceptable or what’s so bad. And that the ethical bulletin of aloof replacing animals is not enough.

LEAH: I affectionate of like that he’s not assuming to accept all the answers, you know?

LAURA: Yeah, it’s absolute unprofessorial. He’s not activity to mansplain meat to us.

LEAH: Laura, you aloof absent the absolute befalling to say “meat-splain.” 


LEAH: So I feel like we accept a ambrosial acceptable abstraction of what the Alt: Meat Lab is about. But why don’t we allocution about some of Ricardo’s acceptance and the absolutely absorbing assignment that they’re accomplishing right now?

LAURA: So one of the air-conditioned things about the lab is that these acceptance are developing absolute articles that we could anytime see on grocery abundance shelves or in restaurants. So for example, one of his acceptance aloof started a aggregation alleged Prime Roots, which uses a bane alleged koji mushrooms to accomplish these fish-like products, and they’re based appropriate actuality in the East Bay.

LEAH: Oh, wow, that is very cool.

LAURA: And in this episode, we allocution to addition one of his above acceptance who runs a aggregation alleged Sundial Foods that is currently incubating like affected chickens in a startup accelerator in Switzerland.

JESSICA SCHWABACH: My name is Jessica Schwabach. I’m a accepted undergraduate apprentice at UC Berkeley. I’m a arch admission in May 2021. I abstraction atomic and corpuscle biology, my accent is genetics, genomics and development.

LAURA: Jessica met her approaching business partner, Siwen Deng, in Ricardo’s class.

LEAH: And they accomplished that there’s this aperture in the alt meat market. There are a lot of, you know, atramentous bean burger patties out there, but not a lot of cuts of meat, acceptation not a lot of steak tenderloin or pork chops.

JESSICA: And so we anticipation it would be a absolutely fun claiming to accouterment to try and actualize article that absolutely has the structure, the appearance, and the aftertaste and arrangement of an absolute cut of beastly meat. Appropriate now we’re absorption on craven because that was the aboriginal affair we went with accurately aphotic craven meat or aphotic craven muscle. It array of acquired from there, into the abstraction of a plant-based chicken drumstick.

LAURA: Wait so, what’s the cartilage if it’s a drumstick?

JESSICA: So we had a brace of altered account about that. I anticipate that the one that we went with for the ancestor for the chic was to use bamboo. The reviews of this abstraction were absolutely mixed. The cartilage is allegedly the best arguable aspect because what we’ve apparent is that after it, it’s adamantine to acquaint that it’s a accomplished cut of meat or that absolutely adds the accent of the actuality that it’s a craven drumstick. Plus, aback you’re affable it like on a barbecue, you affectionate of appetite that so you can authority it and backpack it around. But the abstraction of it actuality comestible is absolute aberrant to people. We had some funny account for the cartilage that we could accomplish it out of article abroad that looks alike added like a bone, but afresh we’re like, no, that’s aloof creepy, we don’t charge to go that far. Like the way that they accomplish dog treats. You can get like a absolutely circuitous arrangement with like bottom and afresh like appearance it and so we could do that. And addition abstraction we had is that you can absolutely abound basis vegetables into molds. So like we could abound carrots into a bone-shaped cast and afresh stick that in there and it would attending like a animation bone. But…

LAURA: I affectionate of adulation the abstraction of that. I aloof adulation a little allotment bite in the average of my fake chicken.

JESSICA: It would be affectionate of cute.

LAURA: As for the meat itself, they’re application chickpeas as the protein base.

LAURA: Mm, I like chickpeas. Alright.

JESSICA: We do too.

LEAH: Me too. They don’t aftertaste like craven though. But they do accept the chat “chick” in them.

LAURA: That helps.

LAURA: Yeah, so it’s a start.

LAURA: And so the way they accomplish them is they brew chickpeas together, but chickpeas are array of bitter, so they add some flavors. And appropriate now they’re accepting the acidity from a accustomed acidity company. But in the future, they’re acquisitive to accomplish the flavor themselves.

LEAH: Right. And one of the issues that they’re adverse that the accomplished alt meat industry is aggravating to accord with is aloof this boredom that is created from the affectionate of mashing calm of these, you know, not absolute blubbery products. So a lot of companies accord with this by aloof abacus a lot of oil. But Jessica and Siwen are aggravating to acquisition a convalescent way to do this.

JESSICA: So bloom is absolutely arch for us. I anticipate one of our active principles, and one that maybe sets us afar from added addition meats companies, is that we never appetite to use capacity that you can’t calmly acquisition in your kitchen cupboard. Every additive is natural. And we try as adamantine as we can to carbon the comestible contour of chicken, at atomic with this product. So that’s like aerial protein, and the fat has to be a agnate akin to craven for us.

LAURA: Do you all accept any pictures of your product?

JESSICA: Yeah, we can accelerate you some pictures.

LEAH: Wait, can you accelerate one appropriate now that we can…

JESSICA: Yeah. Okay, acquaint me aback you can see it.



LEAH: That’s a chicken drumstick!

JESSICA: That’s the chicken.

LAURA: I am absolute away. You alike got the like crispyness. And the skin!

JESSICA: Yeah. So it has a plant-based skin also.

LEAH: Oh yeah.

LAURA: You’ve got herbs on there.

LEAH: Attending at that. Yeah, you’ve got herbs, you’ve got a little bit of brittle area it got fried. You’ve got the non-bone cartilage sticking out.

LAURA: The alone allotment that gives it abroad absolutely is the non-bone bone.


LAURA: I appetite to eat that.

LEAH: So we circling bottomward and the abutting photo was the faux-chicken unseasoned.

LEAH: Oooooh, that looks like a body part.

LAURA: Yeah, it does attending like a body part.

JESSICA: I don’t apperceive if that’s acceptable or bad. But thanks.

LAURA: I mean, it does look, it looks a lot like raw chicken, which does not attending absolute ambrosial to me. You know?

JESSICA: Yeah, fair enough.

LAURA: Aback their apprehensive ancestry in someone’s kitchen, they’ve taken their aggregation Sundial Foods to an accelerator or incubator or whatever, in Switzerland. And they’re aggravating to advance this artefact that started in the class. And so as a allotment of the accelerator, they awash their artefact for a little while in this big alternation of Swiss grocery food alleged Coop, in adjustment to do some bazaar analysis and amount out what was alive and what wasn’t.

LEAH: This seems aloof so ambitious. Like the aftermost affair I would try to carbon is article that’s like, so simple, and so purely meat.

LAURA: Yeah.

JESSICA: We achievement that if we can do it, afresh like, conceptually, we’ve accurate article for the plant-based meats industry that you can actualize annihilation from plants, so bodies don’t charge to eat animals anymore.


LAURA: Leah, they’re aloof aggravating to change the world. Okay?

LEAH: One drumstick at a time.

JESSICA: One drumstick at a time. [Laughs]


LEAH: Laura, I was thinking, accept you heard of the byword “uncanny valley”?

LAURA: That book about Silicon Valley?

LEAH: Yes. Well, that was the byword that aggressive the book title. But the byword itself was originally coined by Masahiro Mori, who was at the time a assistant at the Tokyo Institute of Technology. And it basically describes this phenomenon, this effect, area as robots get added and added human-like, we like it, and we feel added adequate about them, but alone to a assertive point. And afresh there’s this, like, basin area they get so animal like that they can about canyon as absolute humans, but not quite. And it aloof gets absolutely creepy. And it just, like, absolutely freaks us out. Like, I don’t apperceive if you’ve anytime apparent one of those robots that aloof attending like so human, but they’re like a little glitchy. And you’re aloof like, ah! It’s not absolutely a human.

LAURA: Yeah. Okay, I see what you’re saying. Like so, is there an astonishing basin for meat? A abode area it gets to accommodated like, but it’s aloof a abuse off? So it seems like for Jessica and Siwen, they encountered the astonishing basin with the bone. Like bodies appetite affected meat, but maybe they draw the band at an comestible parsnip molded into a chicken fibula.

LEAH: [Laughs] That’s a book that’s never been said before. Yeah, no, I mean, I anticipate ultimately, it depends on what you want. Like, do you appetite to accept absolutely that you are bistro meat, and absolutely ambush yourself into assertive that that bird-shaped slab of soy is a absolute Thanksgiving turkey? Or, conceivably like me, do you aloof appetite a little added protein in your life? And who cares if it’s congealed legumes?


LEAH: So Laura, actuality we are at the end of the episode. Area are you with this accomplished meat eating thing?

LAURA: I’m with Ricardo. So, I anticipate I’m activity to eat beneath meat. And aback I eat meat, I’m aloof activity to do it with friends. So I do accept some cultural accessories to bistro meat. Like, brainstorm a banquet affair in someone’s house—this is column COVID, we’ve all been vaccinated—and anybody is aloof administration dishes and casual it about and aggravating things against a banquet affair area I’m like, “Well, I can alone accept that. Nope, I don’t appetite that. You know, don’t adjustment that because I can’t eat that.” I aloof appetite article added fluid. So I anticipate that aback I’m with friends, I’m activity to eat meat. And afresh aback I’m at home, I’m aloof not activity to cook it.

LEAH: Yeah that’s ambrosial abundant what I do.

LAURA: Although maybe in the future, if administration is what I’m anxious about, maybe anybody will be veg, and we’ll be angry over that aftermost allotment of braised augment or something.

LEAH: Ugh. A babe can dream.

LAURA: A babe can dream.

LEAH: Siwen and Jessica said that for them for Sundial, their ambition bazaar is flexitarians, which are basically bodies who are aggravating to abate their meat burning but still eat it sometimes. You know, they’re flexible. And I anticipate we’ve apparent things like this, like if you’ve heard of meatless Mondays, or Veganuary, I anticipate that’s how it’s pronounced, I’m not sure. Allegedly 250,000 bodies active a agreement to eat vegan for the ages of January. And already it’s a fad, it’s like, you know, it makes it a little easier to happen. I appetite to be in on it.

LAURA: Yeah, a agglomeration of celebrities are activity to do it. Jane Goodall, I assumption that’s not surprising, but Ricky Gervais and Bryan Adams. Personally, I would adulation for there to be a cultural about-face area we all eat beneath meat. And that seems absolute doable. So Leah, did you apperceive that the Impossible Whopper was one of Burger King’s best acknowledged articles launched ever?

LEAH: You’re kidding. Oh my god, I anticipation that was gonna be a total flop.

LAURA: Yeah, it did absolutely well. And it is accessible in all of their 7,000-plus locations, and a agglomeration of companies accept followed suit, like White Castle and Carl’s Jr.

LEAH: But is it acceptable for you?

LAURA: Well, this is array of adamantine to quantify, but based on a analysis by some doctors who were interviewed by, the acknowledgment is not really, or maybe alone marginally. But I anticipate one doctor explained it this way. “I wouldn’t ascertain it as healthier, I would ascertain it as added ethical.” So bigger for the planet may be the aforementioned for you.

LEAH: Wow. Able-bodied there you accept it. End of meat-splain.

LAURA: Alt meat-splain.

LEAH: Ahem. [Laughs]

LAURA: So, Leah, you apperceive what we charge to do now?

LEAH: Ahhh, eat some…steak.

LAURA: No, Leah, we charge to allocution to the approaching generations. Our neighborhood kid.

LEAH: You’re right. Not meat. Yes, neighborhood kid.

LAURA: Don’t eat your neighborhood kid.

LEAH: [Laughs] Additionally that. Aloof to be clear.

LAURA: Not meat with Marco.

LEAH: “Not meat with Marco,” our new segment.


MARCO: Yeah, my sister has been like absolutely absent these like plant-based craven nuggets. That aloof doesn’t complete ambrosial really. But I’m cerebration like, it’s a air-conditioned idea. And I anticipate aloof accumulate alive and it could go somewhere.

LAURA: This is The Bend brought to you by California annual and the Cal Alumni Association. I’m Laura Smith.

LEAH: And I’m Leah Worthington.

LAURA: This adventure was produced by Coby McDonald with abutment from Pat Joseph Appropriate acknowledgment to Jessica Schwabach, Siwen Deng, Brooke Kottmann, and California annual intern Maddy Weinberg. Aboriginal music by Mogli Maureal.

LAURA: It’s glistening. It’s glistening. That craven in the aback is bright in a way that’s very meaty.

LEAH: Mmm.

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